13 responses to “Itchy and Scratchy”

  1. Little Alex

    Firefox 3.6.3.NETCLR3.5.30729 Windows XP

    Not to mention the obvious: self-controlling pain carries high potential for momentary euphoria. The generic example is the teenage girl who cuts herself. The depression is very painful — subjectively, but there’s also the deficiency of natural sources of arousal, pleasure, comfort, etc. — and so is the cutting. The cutting forces the pain that forces endorphins to trigger. Headaches, like the bug-like feeling under the skin, are normally related to physical deficiencies, right? (As opposed to an positive inducement of pain.)

  2. Joel

    MSIE 7.0 Windows XP

    Anyone who talks of something’s feeling like pain but not being pain would have to be using the word “pain” with a new, nonstandard meaning, just as someone who talked of something’s being a regular quadrilateral but not a square would have to be using the word “square” with a new, nonstandard meaning.

    Which is true, but colloquial use doesn’t confer identity. Otherwise there’s the logistical problem of how all those Dutch got to Pennsylvannia.

    Headaches may feel like pains, these experts aver, but they’re really not pains, because they involve neuronal thingummy B instead of neuronal thingummy A. Would you take this seriously? Surely not, because feeling like pain is simply what we mean by pain.

    There can be false bundling in the concept of pain that some scientist discovers upon close examination, and s/he may want to “preserve” the concept by altering it enough to be consistent with observed phenomena, but in some sense still the thing people “really” mean when they say “pain.” It’s not all that odd to consider that there might be several phenomena that we choose to bundle together. If the “pain” doesn’t meet the criteria, then the sensing party’s identification is wrong because they are either using the new “pain” incorrectly or implicitly equating things which _aren’t_ the same, both of which are empirical questions.

    It’s minor objection, that doesn’t really change your grump, even if true, but I just felt like saying it.

  3. Anon73

    Firefox 3.6.3 Windows XP

    I’ve always been curious what you think the “philosophical presuppositions” of science are, and when scientists need to defer to philosophers. Most scientists I’ve met would be more likely to tell a self-described “philosopher” to finish bagging their groceries before taking their objections seriously. Ever since Aristotle came up with his theory of causes and elements and modern science disproved it I take it scientists are generally disdainful of philosophers in general.

  4. MBH

    Firefox 3.0.19 Ubuntu/9.04

    Very helpful.

  5. E5

    Firefox 3.6.3 Windows 7

    So it seems like this whole issue could have been avoided if the original author presented his definition of “pain”, more likely than not it isn’t the same thing as headaches, emotional pain, etc.

    Taking issue with such a trivial point provides incentive for authors to opt for more technical jargon as opposed to common terms that are *almost* the same thing as the technical jargon, if for no other reason it prevents armchair scientists from nitpicking word usage.

  6. Anna O. Morgenstern

    MSIE 8.0 Windows XP

    Thank you for writing this Roderick. You elaborated something I’ve been trying to get some of my friends who are a bit too enthusiastic about pop science to understand.
    “And that takes me to a broader grump about scientists, namely, that scientists tend to be unaware that there is such a thing as a philosophical objection to a thesis. They tend to assume that anything that sounds like a coherent hypothesis (such as the possibility of time travel, or the suggestion that the universe we live in is actually 2-dimensional – to pick a couple of actual examples) is thereby fit for empirical investigation, without considering that in such cases a) there is a prior question as to whether the thesis so much as makes sense (for if it does not, then those who take themselves to be performing an empirical investigation of it will actually not be investigating anything – or at least not that), and b) the training and tools to determine whether it does makes sense are the specialisation of a field other than their own. ”

  7. Bruce

    MSIE 8.0 Windows Vista

    Not to mention the obvious: self-controlling pain carries high potential for momentary euphoria. The generic example is the teenage girl who cuts herself. The depression is very painful — subjectively, but there’s also the deficiency of natural sources of arousal, pleasure, comfort, etc. — and so is the cutting. The cutting forces the pain that forces endorphins to trigger. Headaches, like the bug-like feeling under the skin, are normally related to physical deficiencies, right? (As opposed to an positive inducement of pain.)

  8. Matt Flipago

    Firefox 3.5.9.NETCLR3.5.30729 Windows Vista

    “Headaches may feel like pains, these experts aver, but they’re really not pains, because they involve neuronal thingummy B instead of neuronal thingummy A. Would you take this seriously? Surely not, because feeling like pain is simply what we mean by pain.”

    The funniest thing is this idea is definitely believed by some. Many consider spiciness not to be a taste, only because it is not through the same neural transmitters.