No responses to “In Defense of Voting (sort of), Part 2”

  1. labyrus

    MSIE 6.0 Windows XP

    The whole discussion is a bit different if you look at the libertarian runs for election as really not being sincere attempt to gain political power, and more an attempt to use elections as an opportunity to promote ideas.

    Voting isn’t particularily relevant because genuinely anti-state libertarians aren’t going to win. Much like many communist parties do, though, they can use elections as an opportunity to discuss and engage people about their ideas.

    I’ve had similar discussions with anarchists re: voting. Personally I don’t really think there’s a very strong ideological argument against voting, but I also don’t see a lot of practical value in it. There’s a couple differences in situation, though.
    There aren’t any anarchist politicians. At one point there was the rhino party, but that is long gone. If/when anarchists do vote, we’d most likely be voting for State Socialists, who offer counter-productive solutions to economic problems, but nonetheless provide supports for those disadvantaged by the state system that capitalists do not. It’s more of a defensive strategy to reduce the negative impacts of the system than an attempt to change the system.

    On the other hand, libertarians seem to seek to make a “more libertarian” system through the ballot box. I find it to be extremely worrisome, because they seek to dismantle the state in an assymetrical way – often attacking the social programs which make it possible for the poor to survive in the state system before they address the elements of the system that keep people poor in the first place. It’s a short-sighted, self-centred strategy most often advocated by people who are already priveleged by the present system.

    Question: My impression of most self-identified libertarian politicians is that they aren’t actually anti-state, they advocate “smaller” (which can mean less powerful, less expensive, more local, or even just more federalist depending on the context) government, but never the abolition of it. Is this simply a lie to get elected? Are they unjustified in calling themselves libertarian? Or are they just advocates some kind of statist libertarianism?

  2. Jeremy

    Firefox 2.0 Windows XP

    Excellent article, Roderick. This is an issue with which I’ve been struggling for some time now, and I appreciate a direct answer to Smith’s arguments.

    I think what I find so compelling about Voluntaryist rejection of the vote is the consistency that it engenders within the libertarian himself, not in any outward result it directly causes. By making the conscious, principled decision not to have anything to voluntarily do with the State, you are mentally conditioning yourself to make all the subtle mental reconfigurations of your identity, beliefs, thinking, etc. that move you towards a kind of “spiritual” freedom. From this integrated mindset one can then begin to focus on the end goal. It’s more for oneself, actually, than for anybody else.

    However, I don’t see voting as amoral, and those who feel they can balance State politics with anarchist beliefs are not “wrong” per se. It may be that voting anarchists and libertarians can, in fact, balance some of the contradictions sufficiently, as you said. Obviously, only people following their own consciences and doing the inner work necessary to find truth within can dictate the morality of their own actions.

    But there’s a kind of calm and resolve that comes from divorcing yourself from participation in voting, I think. My friends who have chosen to abstain tell me that they feel like a great weight has been lifted from their shoulders, and they can therefore focus on things outside electoral politics that enrich their lives. I find this argument appealing for its simplicity, and I don’t consider it naive whatsoever. This may reflect my lack of sophistication and strategic thinking, but given finite energetic and mental resources it may be a wise course for many.

  3. Jeremy

    Firefox 2.0 Windows XP

    Labyrus: it is troublesome that the libertarians whom we can actually vote for are not only minarchists, but also that they DO see as legitimate much of the State power which the office of their pursuit allegedly conveys. That is a severe problem which lends less strategic clarity to the problem of voting. However, I don’t consider it a dealbreaker either way – you either consider voting part of the available tools for moving towards freedom or you don’t.

  4. John T. Kennedy

    Firefox 1.5.0.8 Windows XP

    “On the other hand, if she says “No,” the reaction may be: “Oh, so she really intends to uphold the authority of the state! So much for her commitment to libertarianism. No way am I going to vote for her!””

    No problem there since the libertarian voting block is tiny. Feel free to lie your ass off a candidate to infiltrate the MoM, for all the good it will do. The Minions of Moloch are the general population.

  5. BradSpangler.com » Blog Archive » My anti-political to-do list

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    [...] March 27th, 2008 by Brad Spangler reddit_url = ‘http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/933′; digg_url=’http://www.bradspangler.com/blog/archives/933′; digg_skin = ‘button’; digg_bgcolor = ‘#FFFFFF’; digg_title = ‘My anti-political to-do list’; digg_bodytext = ”; digg_topic = ”; Powered by Gregarious (42)Note to self — I need to sit down and compare Roderick Long’s 2006 anarchist defense of voting with Wendy McElroy’s lecture “The Immorality of Voting” (mp3) given at the University of Wisconsin at Madison last month. Share This [...]